I'm a Big Meanie so...

[McGeesJabberwock]

I'm proving that LGW isn't as 'darkly original' or 'brilliantly imaginative' as people like to think, by listng all the similarities to other works.

American McGee's Alice (videogame)
*Alice in Wonderland cast in a darker, bloodier light.
*Alice having to fight the tyranny of an evil Red Queen.
*The Caterpillar being an oracle.
*Tweedledee and Tweedledum splitting themselves into clones.
*A lava world where Jabberwock's live.
*A mine where slaves labour.
*Razor-sharp playing cards used as a weapon.
*A staff being used to overcome a major villain.

Lion King (animated movie)
*Alyss/Simba is living a happy life in her/his kingdom with a friend of the opposite sex, Dodge/Nala, and a nervous tutor, Bibwit/Zazu. An evil villain, Redd/Scar steps out of the shadows, who is Alyss' aunt/Simba's uncle, along with evil henchmen, The Cat and the Cut/the hyenas. Redd/Scar kills Alyss'/Simba's parent, Genevieve/Mufasa. Alyss/Simba escapes, chased by The Cat/the hyenas. The Cat/the hyenas fail to kill Simba/Alyss and tell Redd/Scar that Alyss/Simba is dead. Alyss/Simba meets a childish buffoon, Lewis Carroll/Timon and Pumbaa, that make her/him forget her/his kingdom. She/he only remembers to return to the kingdom when she/he is an adult and remeets the aforementioned friend of the opposite sex. Then Alyss/Simba sees the ghost of her parents/Mufasa who give them confidence. Alyss/Simba battles Redd/Scar and wins.

Narnia (book series)[Thanks http://www.bookhooks.com/detailed.cfm?Report_number=2568]
*A pool as a link between a fantasy world and the real world.
*Someone doubting if a fantasy world ever existed and returning to rule.
*Spies in the woods.

A Series of Unfortunate Events (book series)
*Insistance that the events of the book were real events.
*Disclaimer at the beginning saying the book is depressing and the reader should read something more light-hearted.

1984 (book)
*Dystopia that forbids free thought.

Sonic the Hedgehog (Saturday Morning Cartoon, not game)
*An evil dictator corrupts an once-utopian world into a robotic dystopia and a Princess fights against the tyranny.

Just so you know, I have nothing against a work taking things from another work, but the hype that LGW is 'original' and 'revolutionary' make the derisions stand out in a way derisions in other books don't.

[Sir_Vincent_of_Cheshire]

I agree with you, but only because I am a firm believer of the phrase "There is nothing new under the sun in literature!" To believe that one can create something entirely new in terms of story is silly and as nonsensical as a cat that cannot smile. However, I have read your work on Fanfiction, and found that you were able to capture something uniquely yours. That is how I see these books, uniquely the author's own. Beddor is brilliantly bending the rules of Wonderland in this, and so, I applaude him...plus, he made Hatter a good guy for once...The Mad Hatter, for some reason, is ALWAYS seen as being villainous!

[MollyHomburg]

I'm proving that LGW isn't as 'darkly original' or 'brilliantly imaginative' as people like to think, by listng all the similarities to other works.
...

Just so you know, I have nothing against a work taking things from another work, but the hype that LGW is 'original' and 'revolutionary' make the derisions stand out in a way derisions in other books don't.

I think it's great that you can be a critic of the work and still appreciate it! It thought it was a little formulaic as well, but still a fun read.

I think it's going to be the new black for Goth kids, though. ^_^

[Cheshire's_Folly]

Uh, I think you've missed out on a lot. Read more books from the mid 1900's: a LOT of them were like this, though plenty more dismal.

Prohibiting free thought: The Martian Chronicles (specifically the chapter with the man obsessed with edgar Allen Poe), Brave New World, Catcher in the Rye, etc.

As for other themes, it's really a duh. But the author is a lot more original than you give him credit for. No one's COMBINED these things in such a way that he has. I mean, c'mon: Mad Hatter is really a ninja-esque Head of the Royal Guard, Hatter Madigan. The Cheshire Cat is really an assassin in service of "Queen" Redd. Imagination actually causes shifts in reality. An inventor's parade decides everything the real world comes up with.

The things in this novel aren't "new", but they're unique. He presents everything in a different light and includes all sorts of fantastic people and things to draw you in.

You may not think he's original, but I do. Just in a different way.

[ravenrose]

I would just like to point out one thing, that is purely formed of my own opinion. Alyss is NOT ANYTHING LIKE THE ALICE OF MCGEE. That Alice is absolutely delusional and practically insane, and I would like to think quite a bit darker than our Alyss here. This Alyss is still of the white imagination (or light, as I like to think of it) and is very bright, intelligent, witty, etcetera. And when she was a child she was mischievous and sweet, whereas when she grew up, she was certainly a bit jaded but still, NOTHING LIKE MCGEE'S ALICE.

Stop making comparisons, we could do it until the cows come home with every book in creation, every musician, etcetera, until we found parallels and similarities. People write what they know will sell, and if that means taking others ideas and making them their own, that's what they do because that's what we'll buy. :)

[MollyHomburg]

Stop making comparisons, we could do it until the cows come home...

No one should stop making comparisons! The original post was intelligent, thought out, and in no way mean spirited or disrespectful.

I have to agree with you about the Alice/Alyss thing though, they really are two different characters with a common literary ancestor.

[Cheshire's_Folly]

I agree with MollyHomburg. The first post was well thought out (though I do disagree about it's originality).

And yeah, Alyss is nothing like McGee's Alice, but that's not a bad thing. I like how different they are.

[Lemon Q]

*Tweedledee and Tweedledum splitting themselves into clones.
When does that happen in LGW?

*Spies in the woods.
????????????

1984 (book)
*Dystopia that forbids free thought.
Like Cheshire's Folly said, alot of books are like that.

Sonic the Hedgehog (Saturday Morning Cartoon, not game)
*An evil dictator corrupts an once-utopian world into a robotic dystopia and a Princess fights against the tyranny.
Once again, a lot of books/movies

The other things I agree with though

[McGeesJabberwock]

*Tweedledee and Tweedledum splitting themselves into clones.
When does that happen in LGW?

General Doppelganger. In the UK edition of the book, Alyss accuses Carroll of making him the Tweedles, but the line was omitted in the US edition because the Tweedles were in 'Through the Looking Glass', when the prologue said they were in the first book.

[Hope]

General Doppelganger. In the UK edition of the book, Alyss accuses Carroll of making him the Tweedles, but the line was omitted in the US edition because the Tweedles were in 'Through the Looking Glass', when the prologue said they were in the first book.

Oh Man! I want the UK edition now! hahaha....:D
I need to order that from Amazon UK...haha....:p

~Hope

[TheCat]

People are influenced by the world around them past experiances and well....pretty much everything...so its rather impossible to come up with a completely unique idea, it just doesnt happen.

[TenchinoYami]

Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee didn't split into clones in Alice. Tweedle Dum was a smaller more intelligent (but still not intelligent) version of the gigantic ogresque verision of Tweedle Dee. Who knew only one skill...SMASH! Oh, how I miss you my Mad Hatter. -hearts-

[princessheart]

I would just like to point out one thing, that is purely formed of my own opinion. Alyss is NOT ANYTHING LIKE THE ALICE OF MCGEE. That Alice is absolutely delusional and practically insane, and I would like to think quite a bit darker than our Alyss here. This Alyss is still of the white imagination (or light, as I like to think of it) and is very bright, intelligent, witty, etcetera. And when she was a child she was mischievous and sweet, whereas when she grew up, she was certainly a bit jaded but still, NOTHING LIKE MCGEE'S ALICE.

Stop making comparisons, we could do it until the cows come home with every book in creation, every musician, etcetera, until we found parallels and similarities. People write what they know will sell, and if that means taking others ideas and making them their own, that's what they do because that's what we'll buy. :)

wow i totallly agree with u! im so happy u brought that up:)

[Pudding Pie]

OK... the UK addition must be rather different from the US one... I hate it when they do that... it just confuses my already tenuos grip on reality.... :(

[TenchinoYami]

you mean LGW? Is it really? Great, now I've gotta read the UK version. Hello Amazon, this is Tenchi. -snickers- I hope it's not. Would ruin the grand scheme of things if everything was a multiple outcome. But then again, wouldn't that be interesting...

[Queen Genevieve]

The Medieval storyteller did not endeavor to write an original story, but rather an imaginative new take on an old story, so even your interpretation isn't new ;). Heck, go read Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces and then we'll talk . LGW's sets that up as it's premise from the get-go, so why get nitpicky about it? Certain points are very clear (General Doppleganger/Tweedles), but others are much more open to various interpretation - like Hatter Madigan, who's role as defender/protector is no where represented in the original text (I am not familiar with the McGee game, so I cannot comment on it). Beddor has laid some good ground work, we'll have to see if he's got the follow through.

[TenchinoYami]

I dont know why I didnt connect the Generals to the Tweedles till you brought it up. Kudos kudos. I think it's odd how theres so much activity on this board and it's about a book. but I also think thats awesum. YAY!

[princessheart]

lol i didnt connect it befor i read these forums either lol now its like a total big duh! :)

[ixlfaithlxi]

Ditto!! Wow.... I must be getting stupider. Have to read it again now to see if there's anything else I missed...:)

[dark_faerie_knight]

FINALLY!!!
i thought i was the only one who didnt know the connection between the general and the tweedle-pair!!! :eek:

*long live stoopid pple* lmao:D

[semperAMOR]

in the US version i don't remember any specific reference to the generals being the twins.. though it was bound to be infered.

as for LGW being a great book...
it is.


well, the writing isn't the greatest. i've seen some posts bashing the writing. but as an easy-go-read-fun book and story it works. not only is it fluid but it's assumed we know the original alice's adventures in wonderland.

overall i enjoyed it quite a bit. regardless, if you're on this site, the book did something right. i mean, you're here after all, aren't you?

[dark_faerie_knight]

overall i enjoyed it quite a bit. regardless, if you're on this site, the book did something right. i mean, you're here after all, aren't you?

soo true...ive read better but LGW is good enuff. ENUFF for all of us to be here, ur rite. yet i still like the original alice in wonderland. alice was yesterday, alyss is today. lol

[The Dark Hatter]

I think Beddor did a good job in his book. I agree, its not the same as Mcgee at all. McGee's version is like a clone of Lewis Carrol's, only darker, and more violent. LGW rocks, best books I have read in a long time. Now, on the other hand, comparing McGee's Alice and the Hatter M. comicbooks are a differant matter. Hatter M. and McGee are about the same in my point of veiw.

[Homburg Scott]

I'm proving that LGW isn't as 'darkly original' or 'brilliantly imaginative' as people like to think, by listng all the similarities to other works.

American McGee's Alice (videogame)
*Alice in Wonderland cast in a darker, bloodier light.
*Alice having to fight the tyranny of an evil Red Queen.
*The Caterpillar being an oracle.
*Tweedledee and Tweedledum splitting themselves into clones.
*A lava world where Jabberwock's live.
*A mine where slaves labour.
*Razor-sharp playing cards used as a weapon.
*A staff being used to overcome a major villain.

Lion King (animated movie)
*Alyss/Simba is living a happy life in her/his kingdom with a friend of the opposite sex, Dodge/Nala, and a nervous tutor, Bibwit/Zazu. An evil villain, Redd/Scar steps out of the shadows, who is Alyss' aunt/Simba's uncle, along with evil henchmen, The Cat and the Cut/the hyenas. Redd/Scar kills Alyss'/Simba's parent, Genevieve/Mufasa. Alyss/Simba escapes, chased by The Cat/the hyenas. The Cat/the hyenas fail to kill Simba/Alyss and tell Redd/Scar that Alyss/Simba is dead. Alyss/Simba meets a childish buffoon, Lewis Carroll/Timon and Pumbaa, that make her/him forget her/his kingdom. She/he only remembers to return to the kingdom when she/he is an adult and remeets the aforementioned friend of the opposite sex. Then Alyss/Simba sees the ghost of her parents/Mufasa who give them confidence. Alyss/Simba battles Redd/Scar and wins.

Narnia (book series)[Thanks http://www.bookhooks.com/detailed.cfm?Report_number=2568]
*A pool as a link between a fantasy world and the real world.
*Someone doubting if a fantasy world ever existed and returning to rule.
*Spies in the woods.

A Series of Unfortunate Events (book series)
*Insistance that the events of the book were real events.
*Disclaimer at the beginning saying the book is depressing and the reader should read something more light-hearted.

1984 (book)
*Dystopia that forbids free thought.

Sonic the Hedgehog (Saturday Morning Cartoon, not game)
*An evil dictator corrupts an once-utopian world into a robotic dystopia and a Princess fights against the tyranny.

Just so you know, I have nothing against a work taking things from another work, but the hype that LGW is 'original' and 'revolutionary' make the derisions stand out in a way derisions in other books don't.

i'm not sure which series started first but the cirque du freak(or saga of darren shan if you're not in america) does the insist that the events are real too

[The Dark Hatter]

Uh, wats cirque de freak, a graphic novel? sounds weard. and interesting. :D

[Homburg Scott]

Uh, wats cirque de freak, a graphic novel? sounds weard. and interesting. :D
no it's a series of 12 normal (by that i just mean not graphic as you were saying)books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saga_of_Darren_Shan