Hello Fans of the Book.

[King_Of_Black_Imagination]

Hello all fans of the book I was just wanting to have a good chat with everyone whoed loved the book.

[McGeesJabberwock]

If you're the 'King of Black Imagination', why would you like a book which glorifies White Imagination?

[King_Of_Black_Imagination]

Good question but I didn't say what parts of the book I like now did I.

[McGeesJabberwock]

Good question but I didn't say what parts of the book I like now did I.

Are you saying your favourte parts of the book are the parts wth the baddies? Then you'll be happy to know Beddor's making a comic book about Queen Redd.

[King_Of_Black_Imagination]

Thanks that is really awesome to know I have all the Hatter M comics that has come out so far. Do you know when there supose to come out?

[General Doppel]

Has anyone one seen general ganger? I need to find him. I kinda lost contact with him a few weeks back, and haven't seen or heard from him since. he wears a lot of camo gear to school, kinda short, buzzed hair, and resides in Fort Fun, IN

[TenchinoYami]

The book doesn't glorify White Imagination. It's just Alyss's weapon of choice. Had the book been about Dodge it would probably be a half/half sort of situation. Besides, this is only part 1. We all know the truth. Black Imagination wins out in the end. We're just better like that. -smilez-

[Cheshire_Cat]

But is is all a chiche of good vs. evil. Yin and Yang. Good ALWAYS wins.. once, I would like ot see a Villian win, just for kicks, ya know? Then again, I am a top assasin for the Queen/ Ex-Queen Redd. *purr* Look at most novels and plays, good always wins, I'd know. I am a fan of Brothers Grimm. If you find a novel to prove me wrong, by all means, enlighten me with a personal note in my mailbox and I will get back to you personally telling you my thoughts on the novel. Why can't a villian win? It always has to be a happy ending, like Disney.

Cheshire_Cat
aka Yang Incarnate

[McGeesJabberwock]

The book doesn't glorify White Imagination. It's just Alyss's weapon of choice.

No. The book shows those who use White Imagination as good and Black Imagination users as evil. Observe:


[Redd] once came upon a Six Card, a lieutenant, yelling at some idiot Two who was cradling a cute, fuzzy guinea pig.

'I tell you to think black thoughts and you come up with that!?' the lieutenant had screamed. 'Is a guinea pig bad? Do you consider a guinea pig the representation of all that's evil?'

'Maybe...if it's an evil guinea pig.'

Doesn't that remind anyone else of Austin Powers?


One must train the imagination for the promotion of peace and harmony and the precepts of White Imagination because Black Imagnation is not what anyone wants at all.

White Imagination is clearly seen as 'good' here, being about family, honour, tradition and donuts. Oh wait, that's Mucha Lucha.


[Redd] spread out her arms as if to embrace all that was bad...

Oh please.


Had the book been about Dodge it would probably be a half/half sort of situation.

I applaud Beddor for giving Dodge grey areas, and he'd most likely succumb to Redd and join the Dark Side come Book 2.


Besides, this is only part 1. We all know the truth. Black Imagination wins out in the end. We're just better like that. -smilez-

I admire your enthusiasm. ;)

[McGeesJabberwock]

But is is all a chiche of good vs. evil. Yin and Yang. Good ALWAYS wins.. once, I would like ot see a Villian win, just for kicks, ya know? Then again, I am a top assasin for the Queen/ Ex-Queen Redd. *purr* Look at most novels and plays, good always wins, I'd know. I am a fan of Brothers Grimm. If you find a novel to prove me wrong, by all means, enlighten me with a personal note in my mailbox and I will get back to you personally telling you my thoughts on the novel. Why can't a villian win? It always has to be a happy ending, like Disney.

Cheshire_Cat
aka Yang Incarnate

Yeah, LGW is really good and evil with not much inbetween...allow me to direct you to a quote from a review:


It is perhaps a contemporary American trait that any such reworking should involve conflict. The plot eschews the opportunity to reimagine Alice in a strange and whimsical manner, in favour of straightforward Hollywood violence. Clearly writing with the movie and game versions in mind, Beddor dispenses with complexities like characterisation and devious plot twists. Instead, what is presented is a tale where everyone is exactly who they seem. Black and white, good and bad with no shades of grey to trouble readers.

http://www.sfsite.com/12b/lg190.htm

And LGW is somewhat Disney as well. Look how closely it resembles the Lion King. Alyss is Simba, Bibwit is Zazu, Genenvieve is Mufasa, Dodge is Nala, Redd is Scar, the Cat is the hyenas, the Blue Caterpillar is Rafiki and Lewis Carroll is Timon and Pumbaa.

Oh yeah, and I can't thnk of any novels where the villain wins off-hand, except for maybe Se7en, but that's not a novel. I think Notre Dame de Paris may count, but most everyone meets their end there. I've written some stories where the baddies win (www.freewebs.com/entertheotherworld). Other than that, I can't think of anything else.

[princessheart]

hmm im not quite sure who id want to win but i can say this most of u are all hoping that evil but come on these books are pretty much based on Alice so im sure evil (dark imagination) wont win

[Cheshire_Cat]

i hope Alyss wins. I stand by what I say- it is all chiche evils. I get the feeling someone important like Hatter or Dodge might die.... I more so hope he will marry Alyss and have children.

[McGeesJabberwock]

i hope Alyss wins. I stand by what I say- it is all chiche evils. I get the feeling someone important like Hatter or Dodge might die.... I more so hope he will marry Alyss and have children.

Dodge marrying Alyss and having children would be too cutesy and cliche for me...here's how I see it...

Redd, after enterng the Heart Crystal, can invade Wonderlander's dreams. She enters Dodge's mind, and he has a dream where he kills the Cheshire Cat and avenges his father. Due to this, he pledges his allegance to Redd and Black Imagination, and thus, helps Redd return to Wonderland somehow. Alyss is now faced with a quandrary; in order to ensure victory for White Imagination, she has to kill Dodge.

If Dodge is to die, that's the way it should be done. Of course, Hatter M may die since he's the most popular character here. And Bibwit may die, because, like Dumbledore, Obi-Wan and Yoda before him, he was a tutor in a fantasy story.

[princessheart]

that would be interesting i guess but he better not die. even if they dont marry he cant die or go evil

[Cheshire_Cat]

well now that i look at it, Dodge might be a key to either side. we never know. he was made a shady character.
But he was one of hte founders of hte Alyssians, along with Hatter and the Tutor, was he not??

[The_Cat]

Well, this is my first post here.

OH!! OH OH!!!!
I am a HUGE COLLOSAL fan of TLGW!!!! I love it!! I finished it a couple weeks ago and am reading it again. My favorite characters (in this order) are Alyss, Hatter Madigan, The Cat, Dodge, and the rook. I can't wait until Seeing Redd comes out. TLGW (or The Looking Glass Wars) is so awesome...

[McGeesJabberwock]

I am torn with LGW. Part of me wants to like it so bad. Yet another part of me can't help but criticize. Like it or not, you must admit LGW has flaws. I know no-one's perfect, and even stuff like Harry Potter has flaws, but seriously, I find it hard to ignore LGW's flaws.


Dodge stood on a cliff above the Pool of Tears. The water sloshed and lapped in the breeze. Whether it was the wind that caused it or something else, he wouldn't have admitted, but a tear fell from his cheek into the water below. How he missed his father. How he wshed he could still believe in the Queendom of Genevieve's time, the one he had lived in a lifetime ago, when he and Alyss used the palace as their playground. But those years of innocence and indulgence belonged to someone else, another Dodge, not the man standing here.

Oh, COME ON.

The main problem I have with LGW is that, yes, I am an Alice in Wonderland fan and I can't help but think that with the above paragraph and a ferw other examples, LGW is turning the Alice books into the very things they mocked. When Alice in Wonderland was written, it was intended as a satire of the children's books of the day:


It was all very well to say `Drink me,' but the wise little Alice was not going to do THAT in a hurry. `No, I'll look first,' she said, `and see whether it's marked "poison" or not'; for she had read several nice little histories about children who had got burnt, and eaten up by wild beasts and other unpleasant things, all because they WOULD not remember the simple rules their friends had taught them: such as, that a red-hot poker will burn you if your hold it too long; and that if you cut your finger VERY deeply with a knife, it usually bleeds; and she had never forgotten that, if you drink much from a bottle marked `poison,' it is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later.


`You're thinking about something, my dear, and that makes you forget to talk. I can't tell you just now what the moral of that is, but I shall remember it in a bit.'

`Perhaps it hasn't one,' Alice ventured to remark.

`Tut, tut, child!' said the Duchess. `Everything's got a moral, if only you can find it.' And she squeezed herself up closer to Alice's side as she spoke.

Alice did not much like keeping so close to her: first, because the Duchess was VERY ugly; and secondly, because she was exactly the right height to rest her chin upon Alice's shoulder, and it was an uncomfortably sharp chin. However, she did not like to be rude, so she bore it as well as she could.

`The game's going on rather better now,' she said, by way of keeping up the conversation a little.

`'Tis so,' said the Duchess: `and the moral of that is--"Oh, 'tis love, 'tis love, that makes the world go round!"'

Both these quotes make fun of the didantic moralising found in the common children's fable. Part of the charm of the Alice books was that they had no morals in a time when every children's book had them. LGW, sadly, seems to have a moral; either to cherish your imaginaton, or that power corrupts. LGW includes many of the 'classic' cliches of children's stories (a magical fantasy world under seige, girls as honourary boys, ultra-talented, really skilled superheroes, vengeful and tyrannical villains with stupid and incompetant henchmen) and doesn't really make fun of them or make them any different.

The most important area where LGW and Alice contrast is how the Wonderland characters react to Alice. In LGW, the 'Wonderlanders' love and worship Alyss, except the evil ones. On the flip side, the citizens of Carroll's Wonderland see Alice as insignificant, and thus frequently talk down to her, order her around and criticize her. Therefore, the latter is more humourous and realistic.

Before you say I shouldn't be comparing Alice and LGW and LGW is its own story, keep in mind that Beddor himself none-too-subtly compares his book to its source material.


The true story of Wonderland involves bloodshed, murder, revenge and war...those of you of a more sensitive disposition might prefer reading Lewis Carrol's classic fairytale.

Um...Beddor, the 'classic fairytale' you mentioned is also quite disturbing:


`Well!' thought Alice to herself, `after such a fall as this, I shall think nothing of tumbling down stairs! How brave they'll all think me at home! Why, I wouldn't say anything about it, even if I fell off the top of the house!' (Which was very likely true.)



"I weep for you," the Walrus said.
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size.
Holding his pocket handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter.
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?"
But answer came there none --
And that was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.'


`I mean,' she said, `that one can't help growing older.'

`ONE can't, perhaps,' said Humpty Dumpty, `but TWO can. With proper assistance, you might have left off at seven.'

Not such a 'nonsensical children's sojourn' now, is it?

I'm very sorry if I sounded arrogant or jealous, but seriously. Just because you like a book doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws and shouldn't be criticized.

BTW, I highly recommend Jeff Noon's book Automated Alice. Like LGW, it takes inspiration from Lewis Carroll, has steampunk undertones and is set in a land more occupied than that of Carroll's, but utilises Carroll's writing style and wordplay, and expands upon some of te ideas presented in the Alice books.

[Cheshire_Cat]

The way I see the end is that Alyss gets the title of queen. Dodge, wanting his vengence pledges alleigance to the Black imagination in order to kill the Cat and Redd. (The 'ol saying 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer').. there might be somethig cutsey, like a marraige.

and you all? what do you have to say?

McGees Jabberwock, i bow to your knowledge. You thought of a good end (see above posts).. kudos. i only give praise where praise is due. Alass, do not think I have defeated you in the game.

[The White Knight]

The thing that I mainly dislike in the differences between LGW and Alice in wonderland is that in the original, everything was representing of something in Carroll's real life (hence a looking glass metaphor is suited perfectly) Carroll himself is in the book, as a Dodo bird. He is the Dodo bird because he would stutter often, and he would say "dodo" istead of dodgeson. The other Lidell children were also in the book, as were numerous other things. I have to say, I was writing a take on Alice in Wonderland when I heard this was coming out, but I was just writing on how there was another human that entered wonderland.... oh well.

[Anailee Hunter]

Trying to bump the non porn adverts to the top

<3 Anailee Hunter

[Anailee Hunter]

Trying to bump the non porn adverts to the top

<3 Anailee Hunter

[frankie]

Although the first book is mainly about White Imagination its nice to know that one of the main characters (aka Dodge Anders) has had a brush with the dark side.
This gives the effect that there will be maybe another side to Alyss as well, if she, as we all hope, manages to help Dodge and get him back on track.
It would be nice to see some more of the bad stuff in the sequel just to give it a boost as too much White Imagination will be TOO much.

[Lady_Melisma]

Well, you know what they say, no light without shadow. Between Redd and the Cat's seeming immortality and Dodge's dark streak Alyss will more than likely have to be on guard. Capability aside, there's just some things Molly can't protect her from.