Hombourg Molly?

[CrimsonCoat]

Hey, I am new, but I was wondering if anyone else has the suspicion that Molly is the daughter of Hatter M. I mean He disappeared 13 years before they met, and she was 13 then as well. She is a great natural fighter much like Hatter. This may be or it may not be, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Not to mention the whole Hat thing.

Thoughts?


I just finished the book today I read it in five, and that pretty much means I loved it!

[Lady_Melisma]

I believe it's rather obvious. Most anyone who's read the book has drawn that conclusion, myself included. Personally, I want to know how she was trained so well, and who risked their necks to do so, as under Redd's regime the Millinery was outlawed and the practice and teaching of its arts forbidden (under pain of a very torturous and gruesome death likely as not). Being a prodigy can only get one so far without teachers.

[CrimsonCoat]

Okay good, I am glad that I was not imagining a connection. I figured she learned a few things from General Doppelganger because we know she was at the Alyssian camp. I know no one has the skills of Hatter, but between natural born talent and good training it could get her there.

[Lady_Melisma]

That she's got natural talent I won't deny. But it does makes me wonder how through her training in the arts is, assuming she was trained at all. Did she have a series of teachers one after the other, with gaps in between when the Milliners she studied under were found out and killed, or simply couldn't risk continued exposure?

[blackrabbit]

i got the same suspicion but only near the end when the hatter asked to have a leave of absence and Molly followed him out of the room.

[CrimsonCoat]

I also don't think Hatter knows or even Hombourg Molly, but I really want to see.

[blackrabbit]

after going back and reading those parts again I'm thinking Hatter might know or at least has an idea. I think Molly has no clue, I think she is just thrilled to see the legendary Hatter back and has some hero worship going on. hopefully this will get explored in the next books

[Her Imperial Viciousness]

I took a quick look at the timelines in the back of LGW recently, looking for something else entirely (I forgot what it was, unfortunately), and my fiance' pointed out something interesting.

Homburg Molly was born in November of 1860. Hatter left Wonderland with Alyss in the Pool of Tears in May of 1859.

Translation: There was 17 months in between Hatter's departure and Molly's birth...far longer than the 9 months needed for a baby to percolate, so to speak. This kind of rules out Hatter...even if he would have done something very...last minute, shall we say.

This is not a bulletproof statement, but it's pretty sturdy because pretty much there are only two chances:

1. Hatter came across Molly's mother while he was in the Mundane world, and had a relationship of some sort. Not impossible, but as I understand Hatter at the moment, VERY much out of his character. He had someone he was very fond of in Wonderland, or at least all signs point that way. He seems the kind of person that probably only had one love and that was all..not to mention he was VERY strongly entrenched in his search for Alyss, almost to the point of obsession, if you think about it.

2. Somehow, said interest made it to the Mundane world. This I think is even MORE unlikely, because it requires either the Pool or the Heart Crystal to get there (from what I can tell so far). The Heart Crystal was in Redd's fortress, so that is pretty ruled out. The Pool....maybe. But most people were afraid of going in there.

Again, I didn't even think of this until I was peeking at the timeline....

[Lady_Melisma]

If I might ask, Your Imperial Viciousness, if you could please reprint this timeline of which you speak? Only, madam, I've only ever read and possessed the original UK editions published by Egmont, so if the timeline is only in the US edition (of which I've not seen) or the UK hardback version (which I currently don't have), you would understand.

That, and I would like to view the facts for myself before revising my theory... And also would like to wonder, was the timeline written by Beddor, or by another party and receive his approval prior to its inclusion? If either applies, it lends some serious credence to your hypothesis.

[Her Imperial Viciousness]

If I might ask, Your Imperial Viciousness, if you could please reprint this timeline of which you speak? Only, madam, I've only ever read and possessed the original UK editions published by Egmont, so if the timeline is only in the US edition (of which I've not seen) or the UK hardback version (which I currently don't have), you would understand.

The timeline in question is in the last couple of pages of the book that I ordered from the site (published by Dial, and my presumption being that it is the US version)...It compares happenings in Wonderland to happenings in the Mundane world. For example, it matches "Alice arriving to Earth with the "13th day of the 13th rotation of the 1313th revolution of the thurmite moon since the founding of the queendom. Redd's coup." (the date is, as mentioned, May 4th, 1859). It also matches Redd's coronation to the founding of Queensland in Australia, and Billy the Kid's birthday to Homburg Molly's (November, 1860..no date specified, though I'm sure the web could fix that). My personal favorite is that in December of 1871, when Through the Looking Glass is published, in Wonderland, Redd declares the holiday Reddtopia, where all Wonderland children have to give her presents. *hee*

Unfortunately, they don't have page numbers, but 358 is the last numbered page in my edition, and if it was numbered, I would say it would be page 361, and runs four pages total.

While I can't reprint it per se, I could hope that scanning images of it and putting them up in my webspace long enough for folks to review it won't get me in too much trouble. Hey, it's for the sake of our discussion ;D


That, and I would like to view the facts for myself before revising my theory... And also would like to wonder, was the timeline written by Beddor, or by another party and receive his approval prior to its inclusion? If either applies, it lends some serious credence to your hypothesis.

It's something that could be asked of him, I'm sure. I don't know how regularly email is being checked though. If all else fails, I can put it on my "List of Stuff to Ask Frank at ComicCon" I'm putting together.

[Her Imperial Viciousness]

Here's a scan of the first page of the timeline, which shows the date "Alice" arrived and Molly's birthday. I am posting this only for the sake of the discussion only, and will be removing it if requested to do so.

http://pics.livejournal.com/laragoth/pic/00010tc1

Thoughts? Comments? Nekkid Jabberwock figures?

[Lady_Melisma]

While I can't reprint it per se, I could hope that scanning images of it and putting them up in my webspace long enough for folks to review it won't get me in too much trouble. Hey, it's for the sake of our discussion ;D

Thank you so much! Do you think it breaches copyright law to type all this down?

Although, yes, I do notice how events in Wonderland correlate to those in our world, which has led to a rather disturbing thought: if that's what's happened during the Victorian Era, what in Issa's name could have been going on over there when our world was in the midst of the Great War, or WW2?

[lgw]

The Hatter M. Institute has long debated the possibility that Hatter might be Molly's father, but has been unable to unearth any verifiable proof. This discrepancy in the Wonderland-Earth timeline has greatly puzzled us, since, as noted, it would seem to discount any and all kinship theories that we may have developed. We kindly request that anyone who discovers any evidence to the support or to the contrary please forward it to the Institute.

As a service to those around the world who may not have access to the US edition of The Looking Glass Wars, we shall upload the entire timeline into the Curiosity section of the website shortly.

Thank you,

Colonel Nate Barlow

[lgw]

The timeline has now been posted in the Curiosity section of the site. If you are initially unable to find the link, please refresh the page and it should appear.

Best wishes,

Colonel Nate Barlow

[McGeesJabberwock]

Redd declares the new holiday Reddtopia where all the children have to give her presents.

........

........

Um, OK. Wasn't that what Robotnik did in that Sonic Christmas Special?

[Lady_Melisma]

Many thanks, Colonel!

I must say, the timeline is quite intriguing! And having now seen the dates for myself, I for one must sadly discard the possibility of Hatter having contributed to Molly's parentage - unless my hastily contrived, wildly daft, and highly unlikely theory of the gestation period for Wonderlanders being longer than the conventional time we're used to holds any water.

[Her Imperial Viciousness]

Thank you, good sir, for doing what I felt quite uncomfortable about doing myself, even if for the sake of conversational topics :)

[ReadingChick]

...Well, damn. There's a curveball, right there.

We were all so certain, weren't we? :(

Ah well. Guess Molly's just got randomly mad skillz, then. Thanks for the timeline, Viciousness. :)

[dark_faerie_knight]

........

........

Um, OK. Wasn't that what Robotnik did in that Sonic Christmas Special?

isnt that what he did? anyways, molly seems to be the unrueful child of hatter. what about the woman he say in the hallogram when he came back to wonderland? u guys think she was the wife? eh, just curious. it seems plausible enough. he certainly loved her if he still carries her memory with him. besides, after having come back after 13 yrs with a long lost princess in tow, u think someone would remember or even realize that they might be in posession of a child? more likely their own? just thinking out loud....eh. :o

[Her Imperial Viciousness]

isnt that what he did? anyways, molly seems to be the unrueful child of hatter. what about the woman he say in the hallogram when he came back to wonderland? u guys think she was the wife? eh, just curious. it seems plausible enough. he certainly loved her if he still carries her memory with him. besides, after having come back after 13 yrs with a long lost princess in tow, u think someone would remember or even realize that they might be in posession of a child? more likely their own? just thinking out loud....eh. :o

I am pretty sure that Hatter's crystal does reflect a significant other of some sort...likely not a wife due to his duties as the Queen's bodyguard (it doesn't leave a lot of 'free time', I'm guessing), but someone he was quite fond of, to say the least, and that was lost to him while he was looking for Alyss.

I do have an update, however, in regards to the Molly/Billy the Kid connection.... :)

I did a quick search on Billy the Kid (the person who shares Molly's birthday, according to the timeline) and found these articles while trying to confirm his birthday:

http://www.aboutbillythekid.com/fact_vs_myth.htm

http://frontpage.nmia.com/~btkog/billybio.htm

Seems like even Billy has a date that isn't entirely certain, but it does list one of the popular dates as being in Noevember 1859, which if it were confirmed accurate, would place Molly at being born six months after Hatter left, which would make it entirely likely she would be his daughter.

Timeline, however, says one year later, 1860. So now..we have to wonder what's right and what isn't don't we? :D

[Lady_Melisma]

Seems like even Billy has a date that isn't entirely certain, but it does list one of the popular dates as being in Noevember 1859, which if it were confirmed accurate, would place Molly at being born six months after Hatter left, which would make it entirely likely she would be his daughter.

Timeline, however, says one year later, 1860. So now..we have to wonder what's right and what isn't don't we? :D

*headdesk*

And just when I thought that was the be all and end all of it. I don't know who's more evil; you, Your Imperial Viciousness, for uncovering that fact; or Beddor (or whoever it was that wrote the timeline), who were probably fully aware of said fact.

[ReadingChick]

XD Yay, the theory isn't dead! Viciousness, you rule.